On Twitter, I eavesdropped a little on a conversation between Barry Goldblatt and Malinda Lo about gay boys vs. gay girls in fiction (and specifically teen fiction). This, of course, got me thinking.
Cagney and Lacey, probably one of my first slash pairings ever.
LGBTQ characters are far from common, although thankfully they seem to be growing in visibility, although I feel (and this may not be true), that there is a bias towards gay boys, rather than gay girls. In YA, at least, I see many more gay boy characters than I do gay girl characters. Off the top of my head, I can think of several YA books with gay boy characters who are significant to their respective books, but I am having a little more trouble with books with gay girls.
I say significant to their books, not characters who exist as a walk-on to fulfill some sort of diversity quotient. Argh, tokenism.
Why is that? Is it because gay men are more visible in media overall? I can think of several queer male personalities on mainstream television, but queer women seem to be less prominent. On the gay male side, we have the men of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Miss Jay and Mr. Jay on America’s Next Top Model, and then fictional characters like Kurt from Glee or Ricky from My So-Called Life (if you want to go old school). There are many out gay actors, like George Takei and Neil Patrick Harris. On the queer female side, we have Ellen and Lady Gaga. (Although one could argue Lady Gaga counts for like…eight different people. ♥ you, Mama Monster!)
In fiction, you of course have the bestselling WILL GRAYSON, WILL GRAYSON by John Green and David Levithan, as well as Alec and Magnus in Cassandra Clare’s THE MORTAL INSTRUMENTS (another bestseller). HERO by Perry Moore has a gay protagonist. Holly Black’s bestselling MODERN TALES OF FAERIE has a significant gay character. As of right now, I can only think of Malinda Lo’s ASH and HUNTRESS as YA books with queer girls being not only significant, but the main characters of their narratives. Male/male erotica is very popular in the romance world and often gets coverage on sites like Dear Author, and while female/female romances are featured too, their numbers are far fewer.
The old adage in publishing is that you market fiction to women, as women buy more. And if you believe that women want to read about themselves*, then by that theory, shouldn’t queer women be more popular than queer men?
*which I don’t, or at least, I don’t believe they only want to read about themselves
But it doesn’t seem to be the case, and I wonder why that is. Is it because the majority of female buyers are straight and they would prefer to read about “hot males” than hot females? (That might explain the prevalence of male/male erotica in the romance world.) I have noticed a tendency for female reviewers of YA novels to focus on how much they loved the male characters, how they had crushes on them, etc. and to not mention their feelings about the female characters, positive or negative. Is it because the female character is viewed as a vehicle to “be with” the male character (so to speak)? Is it because male characters (in YA in particular) have a tendency to be attractive (whatever that means) and therefore it’s okay to crush on them, even if they’re gay? What is it, exactly?
I don’t pretend to know the answers to any of these questions, or even assert that these questions are valid. I just want to know what other people think.
I have selfish reasons for wanting more queer girls in YA, mostly because I’m queer myself*. And as happy as I am to read about more LGBTQ characters in fiction, it’s harder to sell me on stories with only gay boys because I don’t see a space for person like me in the narrative, or rather, I don’t see a space for the teenage girl I once was. I want to read a story about a girl who has a really intense friendship with another girl, the nature of which hovers between platonic and romantic. (Something like Sils and Berie’s relationship in Lorrie Moore’s WHO WILL RUN THE FROG HOSPITAL?) I want to read a story in which the first, tentative step over the line from platonic to romantic is breathless and exhilarating, and between two girls. (Also, HUNTRESS? Guhhhhhhhhhhh.) I also want to read a story in which the relationship ends happily, or at least not in the death of one. (Spare me the dead queer lover trope, please.)
Surely I can’t be the only one out there looking for a story like this to read? Surely?
*Before you go out and ask me about Bear, just because I love him and am in a committed relationship with him doesn’t mean my sexuality suddenly becomes defined by my current relationship. Just because I am in a relationship with a male and I am female doesn’t mean I am straight. I am bisexual. He knows that. He also knows this doesn’t mean I am always looking for “another option”, or my sexuality is to be used for his titillation. I love my Teddy Bear with all my bisexual heart. All of it.
This runs along the same vein of seeing soooo many fan-fiction writers (especially with anime/manga/games) slashing male characters. Not even to mention the doujinshi that focuses more on the male/male relationships. I think you hit the nail on the head with girls preferring to see two hot guys they like together, rather than a female ‘in the way,’ so to speak. Isn’t that similar to the reason guys claim they like seeing girl-on-girl?
At any rate, I for one would love to see more girl/girl pairings in YA. I would have especially loved it when I was a teenager myself and going through my first same-sex relationships. Would have been nice to see more of ‘me’ in the books I read. I’m not even referring to books like RUBY FRUIT JUNGLE that focus on the sexuality of any given character. The ‘coming out’ books and such. I’m happiest with books that simply *have* gay characters and aren’t necessarily focusing on the fact that girl/boy is, gasp!, gay.
Uhh, I’m rambling. Long story short – no, you aren’t alone in wanting this.
It was part of the reason I got really disillusioned with fanfiction in general and eventually stopped participating in fandoms. Look, I understand the desire to slash m/m characters, especially if they HAVE tension you want to see explored. But slashing male characters for the sake of slashing, or because the idea of the relationship would be “hot” drove me NUTS. I wrote a lot of femmeslash back in the day. :)
I’m a little tired of coming out narratives in the same way I’m tired of “immigrant issue” books featuring Asian protagonists. I, like you, want to read books in which characters just…are!
I’m guilty of being one of those fan-fic writers once upon a time, though I’ve long since grown out of it and moved away from fandoms for the same reasons as you. I prefer my pairings – be them m/f, f/f, or m/m – to at least make sense and not be for the sake of ‘they look hot together!’
I think for me, the coming-out books don’t have a huge impact because when I came out, it just… was. There was no big deal about it. No huge drama or internal crisis. I simply met a girl I really liked, decided I wanted to date her, and there you have it.
With more gay characters in general showing up in YA, here’s to hoping we start seeing some good f/f relationships on the shelves soon!
I *think* Elissa Hoole’s book (which was a New Adult contest winner too, no?) features gay girls. Or girls considering being gay? I’m not positive, seeing as it’s not out yet, but that’s the vibe I keep getting. http://greenhouseliterary.com/index.php/books/kiss_the_morning_star/
Also, Dylan in HOLD STILL by Nina LaCour is a gay girl, and although she’s not the protag, I’d say she’s the second main character (or maybe third, if you count the dead girl). Regardless of the order, I loved her. (Not in the Team Dylan kind of way, though.)
As for TV, there are lesbians and bisexual women on a few shows, including Glee and Grey’s Anatomy. Lots more about lesbians in pop culture can be found at the wonderfully witty Dorothy Snarker blog (which I think you would enjoy, if you don’t already know about it): dorothysurrenders.blogspot.com
(Also, she’s Asian. Blogged about that one recently.)
Anyhoot, none of those examples are meant to be arguments. I do think there are more gay guys being represented than gay girls. I couldn’t point to a reason why… Something relevant to the discussion might be the difference in stigma, though. For some reason it seems as if bisexual or gay women are considered “hot” whereas bisexual or gay men are considered “weird.” Gay men are not a turn-on for women, whereas gay women might be for men. Again, I don’t think that’s the answer — maybe not even a main factor — for the discrepancy, but I do think it’s part of the discussion.
I will say that as a straight, non-bi-curious woman, I don’t seek out books about gay men or women. However, I don’t consciously seek out books about straight men or women either. I don’t know how or if that would change if there were a greater number of books about gay men/women out there. I do know that a friend of mine sent me her lesbian detective novel to beta read (and its sequel, for that matter) and the sexuality of the characters didn’t matter one whit to me. It was a fun, compelling mystery that I enjoyed immensely.
Oh I LOVED Elissa’s book. It’s exactly the sort of thing I wanted to read, although it was more straight YA than the New Adult Dan was trying to do.
I would actually argue that gay men ARE a turn-on for straight women, as they seem to be the people writing the majority of male/male erotica and fanfiction. We SEE gay women being hot because the sort of queer women on TV are filtered through a straight male’s gaze.
The point about you not consciously seeking out books about straight men or straight women is moot because said books are the majority; you will find them because they’re there in large numbers. The real question is: when presented with two books, one with a heterosexual romance and the other with a queer one, which would you choose to read?
Oh yay, that makes me even more excited to read it! :)
(Speaking of New Adult, have you heard about the new Sisterhood book? I’m sure you have, but just in case: http://www.amazon.com/Sisterhood-Everlasting-Novel-Traveling-Pants/dp/0385521227/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302728583&sr=1-1 )
Interesting, b/c none of my female friends find m/m pairings a turn-on, whereas almost all my male friends would go ga-ga for f/f. But then, my friends are a small subset.
I can honestly say I would prefer to read the book that’s better written, regardless of the sexuality. I do believe that love is universal, even if the anatomies involved are different (or actually the same, I suppose, lol).
I have! (Did you know that she used to work for Cap’n Sweet Valley? :)) I never read the books though.
M/M is a huge subset of erotica–in fact, one of the biggest and most profitable. And the primary writers and consumers are straight women! That was the case of m/m slash fanfiction too, back in the days when I hung around internet fandoms.
I had no idea! Although I did read somewhere that Sisterhood was originally a packaged idea. Did that come out of Dan / Cap’n Sweet Valley / Mr. Weiss / I never know what to call him’s company? I’ve only read the first one.
Iiiiinteresting. Come of think of it, there *was* a lot of m/m in the Star Trek and Sailor Moon fandoms. Those were the only ones I got into, but that was a loooong time ago, lol.
Gay men are a turn-on for many straight women, I think.
As for the real question: it depends. Is the heterosexual romance a straight-up cheesy romance with little substance? Is the queer romance deep and compelling? Or vice versa? That would sway my decision significantly. If we’re talking a heterosexual romance and a queer romance that are BOTH deep, romantic, and compelling, then I personally don’t care. Close my eyes and pick one to read first, I guess. :) For me (and I imagine for many readers) it still comes down to–which back cover copy sounds more interesting? Which have I heard better reviews about? Etcetc. For example, I wanted to read ASH over many a typical, heterosexual romance novel b/c Malinda Lo’s lyrical prose makes me want to leap off a waterfall into a lake of lush lilies while listening to Enya. (so soothing!) Ash and Kaisa are amazing characters and many ppl recommended the book to me. That’s what made me choose it. :)
I think writers in general will tend to write pairings that are attractive to the writer him/herself. (hence the tilt in favor of male/male as others have mentioned) Otherwise, can the relationship come across to the reader as genuine? Can many writers create worthy pairings and relationships of a particular gender combination unless the writers themselves can truly (I mean *truly*, beyond understanding a pairing logically/sexually and more toward feeling it emotionally) understand what that respective relationship is like? I mean, there are more male/male pairings in fiction but some of them do have a bit of a fetish slant rather than a genuine emotional slant. So maybe the lopsided scale is due to writers shying away rather than readers?
hee! *blush* I was reading this post…thinking, HEY! I can do that! and YES! I SO HOPE you’re not the only one who wants a book about intense girl friendship turned romance! Also I love love loved ASH and I’m so excited to read HUNTRESS, which is on my wishlist! :)
I completely agree with this post! We need more positive female/female relationships. Another book that springs to mind is Maureen Johnson’s “The Bermudez Triangle”.
I think part of the male/male thing is that it’s mostly women writing it. For whatever reason, the trend seems to be that straight women write gay men, but not lesbians. I don’t understand it, but there you go.
I wrote about this on my blog recently, when I was listing my favorite books with gay protagonists, and realized none of them featured women. I do think it’s something to do with the “[straight] female gaze” — just as there seem to be more gay/bisexual women characters than gay male characters in movies, which are produced by a male-dominated industry.
Yes! All of this!
I was terribly excited the first time I read Catherynne Valente’s PALIMPSEST. I loved November and Casimira, and most of the characters are bisexual and polyamorous. I was thrilled to finally see myself represented, and in such a beautifully-written novel at that.
Of course, I adore ASH and HUNTRESS.
Yes, definitely more gay girls!
When I was reading ANNA AND THE FRENCH KISS, I kept thinking I’d love to read a lesbian version of it. Two girls falling for each other (not a coming out book, just crushing on each other), amid all the crazy, hilarious things happening along the way. And, well, not set in France, probably.
OOH. I think I would have enjoyed that book more if it had been a queer book.
I also told myself that I may try to write it. Hopefully when the current revision stuff is done. :)
I have thought this since I was a teenager and dealing with all that stuff! You were just in the wrong fandom, there was PLENTY of f/f slash on the Buffy the Vampire Slayer fanfic sites. There’s like 5 years of my writing life right there! I always wanted a fantasy or sci fi novel with lesbian characters, I didn’t want to read about how hard it was to come out. I knew that. I wanted to read about a crazy fantasy world, where two girls fell in love and things ended up okay. So that’s what I wrote lol. Granted, they are not happy for the entirety of the book, but that’s because that would be boring!
I would say that it’s definitely part that gay men are a turn on (and the readership is largely female) but also the fact that there’s more HISTORY of gay men in fiction. When gay characters first started coming out of the pages, they were mostly male–written by men, in a time when men’s stories were generally told more often anyway, then romanticized and spread even more by women. (I love Mary Renault, but her focus on gay men is undeniably due to her romanticization/eroticization of them as well as political/social sympathy). Gay men could be tragic! They could be write large in their tragedies! Gay women’s tragedies would have been much smaller and quieter in scale, and confined to the home, the silent understated tragedy of any unhappy woman of the time (oh no she’s unhappy in her strict gender role and her marriage? Welcome to the life of many women regardless of sexual orientation!).
Plus there was the whole thing about women not really having sexuality or being sexual creatures… so if they were gay, again, it seemed like there was less t work with. What DID develop was the trope of the “evil bisexual,” because a woman who actually had an active and desirous sexuality was fascinating, thrillingly threatening… but could only be so as long as she could lead men to ruin. At which point her attraction to women would be part of her titillating perversion, but she’d have to pray on men (or to eventually be conquered by a man) to have the story “matter.” Otherwise, if she’s just inaccessible to men and shacking up with other women, ok, that’s “twisted” but who cares so what? Men might care if she’s seducing their good-girl wives, but that’s a very emasculating narrative (even if the husband later gets revenge on the evil lesbian) and was thus less popular.
It’s becoming different now because the cultural landscape has changed (although not as much as we’d sometimes think) but the history of stories still informs expectations of what stories are worth being told. So I feel like people go for the queer male because he’s more familiar, because there hasn’t been enough precedent of how to *use* the queer female in a story that’s neither offensively negative, or domesticatedly “boring” for a YA novel.
Yes! This!
There is also the trope of the evil bisexual male, although he’s less prevalent than the evil bisexual female, who, let’s face it, is just evil because she’s sexual at all.
I also think that male sexual orientation is also somehow just more visible. If they weren’t out-gay in fiction, they were coded gay with queer language. They were also in positions of commenting on society (like jester figures) due to their “outsider-ness”: fops, dandies, kathoeys, hijiras, etc. On the other hand, very few historical women were. “out” in their sexuality in any obvious way. And I think to, there existed (and possibly still exists) this idea that “lesbianism” or “bisexuality” in girls is simply a stop on the path to heteronormative marriage and babies. I don’t know, just musing.
Just to chime in here, as a teen librarian, while there are not as many queer girls/women in YA list as there are queer guys, they ARE there. I always agree that there should be more, but, just to give a sampling of the queer ladies that are out there in teen fiction:
A Love Story Starring My Dead Best Friend by
The Sky Always Hears Me and the Hills Don’t Mind by
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden (the classic)
Keeping You a Secret, Far from Xanadu, grl2girl all by Julie Anne Peters
Empress of the World and The Rules for Hearts by Sara Ryan
Pink by Lili Wilkinson
Deliver Us from Evie by M. E. Kerr (another classic)
Kissing Kate by Lauren Myracle
Dare Truth or Promise by Paula Boock
Hard Love by Ellen Wittlinger, and even more so it’s sequel, Love & Lies
Gravel Queen by Tea Benduhn
The House You Pass on the Way by Jacqueline Woodson
The Bermudez Triangle by Maureen Johnson (mentioned above)
Hello Groin by Beth Goobie
Wildthorn by Jane Eagland
So, they are there. There should be more, always.
TV and film is, of course, and entirely different matter.
Thanks so much for this list!!!!!!!
Going out soon with a SF with a bisexual female protagonist who (spoilers!) ends up in a happy f/f relationship. Also have a UF YA trilogy where the second book is slated to have a gay girl as the protag (she’s a major secondary character in the first), so provided that first one sells and all. I like to think I’m answering the call. :)
I’m always on the lookout for LGBTQ fiction, queries and books, and I identify straight. For me it’s a matter of knowing there isn’t enough out there and that more is needed. It always comes down to the writing and characters and whether the work is actually something I like, but I do always perk up hopefully when a query mentions a same-sex pairing.
Hello! Just to add more to the list. I write lesbian romance for Bold Strokes Books and they’ve release a few YA titles recently with female protags. There are three more coming out soon, all with female leads.
Hope the links are helpful. :)
http://www.boldstrokesbooks.com/categories.php?category=Paperback-Books/Young-Adult-Fiction/Upcoming-Releases
http://www.boldstrokesbooks.com/categories.php?category=Paperback-Books/Young-Adult-Fiction/Browse-Books-by-Title
Very late in the day I finally get a chance to comment here … I’m so honored by all the ASH/HUNTRESS love! JJ, I hope that “Guhhhhhhhhhhh” was a good “Guhhhhhhhhhhh”? LOL.
And to echo the librarian above, yes, there are actually some wonderful YA novels about queer girls, but they’re 99% realistic. If you don’t like contemporary/realistic YA, the pickings are slimmer. I just read an ARC of Julie Anne Peters’ next book, SHE LOVES YOU, SHE LOVES YOU NOT (June 2011), and it was so heartbreakingly real — a difficult but honest story about dealing with the end of first (lesbian) love and the beginning of the rest of your life.
I also really enjoyed WILDTHORN by Jane Eagland. Definitely a Sarah Waters for teens kind of escapist historical. Fun!
Don’t worry, Malinda, it’s a good “Guhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.” :)
I am admittedly not a fan of contemporary YA as a whole, although for the sake of trying to find queer girl lit, I may be venturing more in that direction. I think the reason I latched on to Sarah Waters was because she wrote historical stuff. I’m about halfway through WILDTHORN now and definitely get what you mean–it’s FINGERSMITH for the teen set.
I have not yet discovered Julie Anne Peters! Must go check her out. While I’m at it, Elissa Hoole’s upcoming novel THE MORNING STAR (above) has exactly the sort of relationship between girls I love.
I had crushes on female characters and friends while growing up. I completely didn’t see anything wrong with this. From the moment we were born, our mother taught us that we can do and feel whatever we want as long as we don’t lie, don’t make too much noise, don’t forget to be polite, don’t borrow without asking; don’t purposely hurt those who are emotionally, physically or mentally weaker than us, don’t forget to assure our highly neurotic grandmother with affectionate words, and don’t end up in jail. Above of all, don’t ever touch her prized collection of designer shoes without her permission.
I had major crushes on Tank Girl, Mikako from Hoshi no Koe / Voices of Stars (novel), Milla Jovanovich, Rizzo from Grease, Pudge from Shag, Girl #11 (Kou Shibasaki) from Battle Royale, and the ultimate object of my crush~~ Faye Wong.
In spite of that, I couldn’t get into YA novels about female relationships. Perhaps because they tend to be gentle, wishy-washy or indecisive. Indecisiveness bores me. Caution bores me also.
Gay men’s history is more visible because men had the freedom to voice their displeasure (for or against) throughout history. There was no law against lesbianism in most countries because women were seen no more than virgins, brides, wives, whores and mothers – all existed for men only. Because of this, there was a wider acceptance of women as close friends. Easier to accept women/spinsters living together or sharing a bed while staying at a guest house. It still didn’t mean they could openly declare themselves as couples.